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1、BOOK IV Athenian Stranger. And now, what will this city be? I do not mean to ask what is or will hereafter be the name of the place; that may be determined by the accident of locality or of the original settlement-a river or fountain, or some local deity may give the sanction of a name to the newly-
2、founded city; but I do want to know what the situation is, whether maritime or inland. Cleinias. I should imagine, Stranger, that the city of which we are speaking is about eighty stadia distant from the sea. 客： 【704a】现在，我们应该怎样来描述我们未来的国家呢?我可不是指它的名称：我既 不问它现在叫什么名称，也不问将来叫什么名称。 （因为这也许取决于它实际上所在 的地理环境或某些相
3、邻的地点。名称可以取自某条河川或溪流，或一个地方神的名 字。河流或地方神把自己的风格和头衔给了这个新国家。 ） 【704b】我的真正的问题 是：这个国家在沿海地带还是在内陆? 克： 先生，刚才我们谈到的那个国家离海大致 80 斯坦特。1Ath. And are there harbours on the seaboard?Cle. Excellent harbours, Stranger; there could not be better.Ath. Alas! what a prospect! And is the surrounding country productive, or in
4、need of importations?Cle. Hardly in need of anything. Ath. And is there any neighbouring State? 客： 好，港口情况怎么样?在该国的沿海地带有港口吗?还是根本就没有? 克： 有，先生。这个国家沿海地带的港口几乎好得不能再好了。 客：【704c】 那么太遗憾了。四周农村的情况怎样?是不是每样东西都有出产，还是有些 东西不出产? 克： 不，它实际上样样东西都出产。 客： 附近有国家吗?Cle. None whatever, and that is the reason for selecting the
5、place; in days of old, there was a migration of the inhabitants, and the region has been deserted from time immemorial.Ath. And has the place a fair proportion of hill, and plain, and wood?Cle. Like the rest of Crete in that.Ath. You mean to say that there is more rock than plain? Cle. Exactly. 克： 一
6、个都没有。这就是它建立的原因。很久很久以前，居民们都从该地区迁了出去，使 土地不知荒芜了多久。 客： 平原、山脉、森林情况怎样?各占多少面积? 克：【704d】 整体上十分类似克里特其余的地方。 客： 你的意思是，崎岖之地多于平坦之地? 克： 是的，是的。Ath. Then there is some hope that your citizens may be virtuous: had you been on the sea, and well provided with harbours, and an importing rather than a producing country,
7、 some mighty saviour would have been needed, and lawgivers more than mortal, if you were ever to have a chance of preserving your state from degeneracy and discordance of manners. But there is comfort 1 一斯坦特约为 9 到 10 英里。in the eighty stadia; although the sea is too near, especially if, as you say, t
8、he harbours are so good. Still we may be content. The sea is pleasant enough as a daily companion, but has indeed also a bitter and brackish quality; filling the streets with merchants and shopkeepers, and begetting in the souls of men uncertain and unfaithful ways-making the state unfriendly and un
9、faithful both to her own citizens, and also to other nations. There is a consolation, therefore, in the country producing all things at home; and yet, owing to the ruggedness of the soil, not providing anything in great abundance. Had there been abundance, there might have been a great export trade,
10、 and a great return of gold and silver; which, as we may safely affirm, has the most fatal results on a State whose aim is the attainment of just and noble sentiments: this was said by us, if you remember, in the previous discussion. 客： 那么这个国家会拥有成为有德行的国家的优良品质。如果它建立在靠海的地方，拥有 良好的港口，好多种谷物都缺乏而不是自己出产每样东西
11、，那么这个国家就需要有 一个伟大的救世主和具有神的素质的立法者，以防止不单纯的或邪恶的个性的大规 模成长：上述那类城市恰好产生此类个性。实际上，离海 80 斯坦特可以让我们比较 放心。即使如此， 【705a】它离海还是比合适的距离近了些，而且你说过，它还有非 常好的出海口，这使情况变得更为糟糕；但还是让我们感谢上苍给了我们些许有利 条件。对一个国家来说，靠近大海容易满足日常生活的需要，但事实上它却不仅是 个单纯字面意义上的“又咸又苦的邻居” 。大海使陆地上到处在进行零趸和批发的买 卖，在一个人的灵魂里培植起卑劣和欺诈的习惯，使市民们变得彼此不可信任和怀 有敌意，这种情况不仅存在于他们自己内部，
12、而且存在于他们与外部世界的交往中。 虽然如此，但对这些不利的情况来说，土地出产每样东西这一事实具有某种调剂作 用。显然，即使它能出产每一种谷物， 【705b】但它的崎岖不平的地面，也会在一定 程度上使它出产的谷物数量不会太大。如果生产过剩，谷物就大量出口，国家被淹 没在回收到的金币和银币中。如果一个国家想要发展起正直和高尚的习俗，那么这 种情况几乎是一切考虑过的事情中可能发生的最糟的事情（如果我们记得起来，这 都是我们在以前的讨论中说过的） 。Cle. I remember, and am of opinion that we both were and are in the right.At
13、h. Well, but let me ask, how is the country supplied with timber for ship-building?Cle. There is no fir of any consequence, nor pine, and not much cypress; and you will find very little stone-pine or plane-wood, which shipwrights always require for the interior of ships.Ath. These are also natural a
14、dvantages.Cle. Why so?Ath. Because no city ought to be easily able to imitate its enemies in what is mischievous. Cle. How does that bear upon any of the matters of which we have been speaking? 克： 我们当然记得，并且我们同意，我们的论点在当时是正确的，现在仍然正确。 客： 【705c】下一个论点是，在造船方面，周围地区的木材供应情况怎样? 克： 那里的枞木或松木都不值得一提，柏木也不多，虽然你们将找得
15、到少量的悬铃木属树 木和阿勒颇松，当然，这些都是造船木工制造船体内部所必需的标准材料。 客： 这也是这个国家的特点，它对该国是无害的。 克： 哦? 客： 【705d】有一件好事，那就是一个国家应致力于发现它难于贬低自己而去模仿它的敌 人的坏习惯。 克： 我们说过支持这个论断的话吗?Ath. Remember, my good friend, what I said at first about the Cretan laws, that they look to one thing only, and this, as you both agreed, was war; and I repli
16、ed that such laws, in so far as they tended to promote virtue, were good; but in that they regarded a part only, and not the whole of virtue, I disapproved of them. And now I hope that you in your turn will follow and watch me if I legislate with a view to anything but virtue, or with a view to a part of virtue only. For I consider that the true lawgiver, like an archer, aims only at that on which some eternal beauty is always attending, and dismisses everything else, wh
